The story of Orson Swindle's shootdown, capture, and internment at the Hoa Lo Prison in Hanoi is not mentioned in the 'Honor Bound' book [1] until page 301 with the footnote that "Swindle had firmly established his own resistance credentials during a brutal 39-day trip to Hanoi from his capture site near the DMZ. See Hubbell [2], 'P.O.W.' pp. 276."

       According to Hubbell, "As the war intensified, the Vietnamese became even more cramped for prison space. On May 19 [1967] alone - the Americans would remember it as 'Black Friday' - seven aircraft were downed. On May 21 [1967], Marine Capt. Orson Swindle was ushered into a cell he was told he must share with three others, Ron Storz, Wes Schierman, and George McKnight, three of the most stalwart resisters. Swindle was thrilled, but the thought nagged that he did not deserve such company, for there was no denying his treason."

       "'Look, you guys,' he said, 'I've heard about you and I just can't tell you how much I admire you. But I've got to tell you something: I betrayed you up here. I gave them a statement [at the Heartbreak Hotel - initial interrogation and torture section of the Hoa Lo prison complex] and didn't take torture for it.' Tears of shame filled his eyes as he explained himself: he had been shot down on November 11, 1966 near the DMZ, had been captured immediately and subjected to savage beatings. He was interrogated and pressed for information and concessions of war crimes several times during a thirty-nine day trip to Hanoi. Resisting, he had been rope-tortured numerous times during a thirty-nine day trip to Hanoi. Reaching Hanoi, he had refused to make antiwar statements and had been kept isolated, hungry, thirsty, and tired. Then ropes had been displayed to him and he was told he was to be tortured again. It had been too much, he said, and he had caved in, confessed to criminal acts against the Vietnamese people, agreed with Sen. Wayne Morse that the war was 'illegal' and was sorry for having participated in it. He felt he had betrayed his country, his family, and every American who had fought and died or been captured in this war. He was inconsolable."

       " 'Orson,' said Ron Storz earnestly, 'don't worry about that.' George McKnight laughed. 'Orson, you're looking at the Ernest Hemingway of North Vietnam! I've written so much bullshit up here you wouldn't believe it!' That made Orson laugh - and nearly cry with relief. He felt all right about himself again. He believed that with men like these around him he would not fail again. It would not be for lack of opportunity."

       The above cellmates were confined to the Desert Inn building in the Vegas section of the Hoa Lo prison complex [3].

       During July 1967, Swindle was transferred, along with others, to Dirty Bird - near a power plant complex in Hanoi. The 'Honor Bound' book describes the situation [4]. "Although the men transferred to Dirty Bird surmised they were sent there for correction purposes, treatment itself was no worse and generally better than at Vegas and elsewhere. The prisoners were usually in solitary, often in irons and handcuffs, and guards enforced the prohibition on communication, but there was no torture and interrogations were limited to attitude checks and lecture on the war…It soon became clear to the inmates that Dirty Bird and its annex were no ordinary prisons. [the Vietnamese held the POWs there in hopes that it would stop the American bombing of the vital power plant]…Dirty Bird's roster was a random mix of veterans and recent shootdowns with no seeming common denominator to their selection or length of stay. The first group included 1965 capture Collins and 1967 captures Julius Jayroe, Gareth Anderson, Jack Van Loan, Joseph Milligan, Edward Mechenbier, Kevin McManus, Read Macleary, David Gray, and Gary Thornton. [Two other Air Force POW recent-shootdowns were also there.]"

       "Several of the other men had either come from or would soon wind up at yet another new camp, 'Plantation,' that will be discussed in the next Chapter."

       "After the departure of the initial group, most of the new arrivals to the power plant in July [1967] were celled at Dirty Bird West. This contingent included a half dozen naval aviators…David Rehman…Vegas transfers Paul Galanti, Ralph Gaither, Mike Cronin, and Marines John Frederick and Orson Swindle…joined by Navy colleague Thornton, a holdover from the original group who now vacated Dirty Bird for Dirty Bird West…Thornton wondered why he was staying put when almost everyone else was being transferred."

       "The decision to send the likes of Gaither and Cronin to the power plant gave some credence to the notion that the hostage installation doubled as a punishment facility. The dispatch of other hardliners to the camp in July and August [1967] further supported this view. Swindle was soon followed by his ornery Vegas cellmates McKnight and Schierman."

Note: John McCain's name is not included in any of the POWs who were imprisoned along with Swindle at either the Vegas complex or the Dirty Bird complex.

       The book, 'Honor Bound,' describes the Zoo prison complex and places Orson Swindle there, along with other resisters [5]. "From its inception in the summer of 1965, the Zoo had a reputation as a 'bad treatment' camp, on a par with Briarpatch and the nastier aspects of Hoa Lo, with which, owing to its nearness to the city, it frequently shared personnel and programs. It had always had an abundance of 'head butters,' any number of whom would have qualified for Alcatraz had there been more room there. The onrushing collision course between the POW resistance and the enemy's countervailing torture and exploitation made it an especially dangerous place in the middle years [1967-1969]…Vegas sent 17 more POWs in July [1967] and another in November [1967]. Among the familiar names [6]. Larry Chesley, Tom Collins, Mike Cronin, John Frederick, Ralph Gaither, David Gray, Julius Jayroe, Jim Ray, Wes Schierman, Orson Swindle, Gary Thornton, and Bill Sschudy. Some new faces, all 1967 captures: Marine Capt. James Warner and Air Force officers Ben Pollard, Kenneth Fisher, and Leon Ellis. For whatever reason, many of those selected … had previously spent time at Briarpatch."

Note: Observe that John McCain's name is not on that list.

       In a chapter entitled, '1969: A Watershed Year in the North, the 'Honor Bound' book describes the peak year of torture for the POWs [7]. "For the veteran POWs jailed in the North, the more than 300 downed U.S. airmen who entered captivity before or during the middle years and lived to return home in 1973, 1969 was the pivotal year of their experience. At the start of that last year of the torture era, although they faced varying degrees of abuse and suffering depending on their specific confinement, none but the most determined among them could yet see light at the end of the tunnel. But in a year of momentous happenings - within months there was the inauguration of a new U.S. president and the landing of a man on the moon - 1969 proved also to be a turning point for the war and for the fortunes of the American prisoners. By years end a series of developments in Washington and in Paris and, most significantly, the death of Ho Chi Minh in Hanoi, substantially improved both the POW's treatment and their prospects, though not before another season of horror once more tested the Northerner's strength and sanity."

       John Dramesi and his cell mate, Ed Atterberry, escaped from the Zoo on 10 May  1969. After their capture, the North Vietnamese commenced a brutal regime of torture throughout the prison system. The book, 'Honor Bound' relates the whereabouts of John McCain during that time [8]. "As the summer [of 1969] wore on, the crackdown spread to the prisons in downtown Hanoi, although the POWs there were in the dark as to why treatment was worsening again. Webb, Stafford, McCain, and Guy were among those hammered at the Plantation…At camps further away from Hanoi, whether owing to fallout from the Dramesi-Atterberry escape or simply the scorching July and August heat, the atmosphere became more combustible there, too, that summer of 1969. At Son Tay officials stepped up inspections and punished prisoners when guards found suspicious marks around cell windows, though security remained lax enough that a group of POWs began planning how to establish contact for a search-and-rescue effort against the camp. Orson Swindle had one of his worst experiences at Son Tay around this time."

Note: Up through this time in 1969, it is established that John McCain and Orson Swindle were never at the same prison camp. They had no first hand contact at all. The 'Honor Bound' book reveals that [9] "The Plantation [where McCain was incarcerated] apparently became a casualty of the new regime [the improved treatment and absence of torture by the North Vietnamese by virtue, among other things, of the death of Ho Chi Minh on 2 September 1969]. Whether its long-running show had lost its credibility or simply was becoming too familiar to be effective, in the fall of 1969 Hanoi's political department decided to close down operations there and move the propaganda activities, on a less grandiose scale, to the Zoo. Brace, McCain, Guy and Larson departed the Plantation in early December [1969], trucked over to Vegas together in the same vehicle…"

       The 'Honor Bound' book continues. "By fall [of 1969] the far-ranging purge had pretty much run its course, though the aftereffects, in terms of heightened surveillance, crippled POW organizations, residual tensions, and continuing harassment, were still discernible almost a year later in some of the camps…Without access to North Vietnamese archives, the historian can not know for sure why exactly the treatment of the American prisoners in the Northern jails improved so markedly beginning in the fall of 1969. Who or what was responsible for the transformation, whether it was the product of a sudden decision or an ongoing reappraisal that the Dramesi-Atterberry furor had interrupted, remains a matter of considerable speculation, among former POWs as well as analysts who have tried to explain the phenomenon…Certainly, even if the policy shift had been evolving, Ho's passing was a milestone event and an opportunity for a more thoroughgoing break with the past…The pace and extent of improvement varied from camp to camp but the conclusion reached was that…there was a lot less brutality - and larger bowls of rice."

       "The pace and extent of improvement varied from camp to camp but the conclusion reached in a 1974 Air Force debriefing summary was essentially correct in stating that 'the era of heavy torture and poor treatment was replaced with an environment of lighter punishment, better food, and generally improved living conditions.' … by the end of the year [1969]  [some veterans] … felt the diet upgrade was one of the first and surest signs of a significant turnaround."

       Honor Bound reveals that [10] "Reinforcing that impression was a general relaxation of regulations. The Vietnamese reduced the bowing requirement to a nod of the head, within a year [1970], dropping it altogether. They continued to prohibit communications but transgressors encountered looser monitoring and lesser penalties. POWs who had been in solitary or isolation for months or years suddenly received cellmates…Gradually through 1970, as a result of the several camp closings and the general trend toward consolidation, Hoa Lo reclaimed center stage in the captivity drama [11]. … The return of …the Alcatraz POWs in December 1969 coincided with the year-end shift of a dozen other POWs from the Zoo, Son Tay, and Plantation to the main prison…Five who came over from the Zoo…were placed in Thunderbird…Ernie Brace and John McCain, from the Plantation were nearby in the Golden Nugget…"

       "By year's end [1970] … over 340 U.S. prisoners of war - all of those captured in the North and known to be still alive - were gathered in one location. It was the first time all the aviators had been together in a single camp [12]. They called the place, Unity.' 'Pandemonium' is the word that appears often in the POW's postwar reminiscences to describe both the confusion and high emotion that accompanied their consolidation in Unity." It is also the first and only time that both John McCain and Orson Swindle were imprisoned any where near each other during their five to six years of imprisonment.

       Organization of the POW resistance became the order of the day during this period of relative freedom. The book 'Honor Bound' tells us that [13] "Although Stockdale's BACK US guidance had been widely disseminated since 1967, the leadership seized the existing opportunity to insure that all the men were operating under the same current understanding of the Code of Conduct. With respect to communication procedures, uniformity and secrecy were still important because … prison authorities continued to forbid communications between buildings and refused to acknowledge any sort of prisoner organization. As a result communications and organization remained covert until the final release elements were organized in February 1973 [the time of POW release]."

       "Achieving a conformity of behavior became imperative for another reason. With the relaxation of captor regulations and a heightened sense of safety as a result of their numbers, many of the prisoners felt free to pursue their own 'self-expression' with no thought to the effect of their actions on the collective interest. Hoping to repair or enhance their reputations as resisters, or perhaps to restore self-esteem, some engaged in displays of bravado that were needlessly  provocative and potentially counterproductive. Others, Stockdale observed, were 'bent on venting their spleen after years of abuse and misery.' Stockman wrote that in the new 'laissez-faire' environment, there were men 'indulging themselves by allowing their tempers to flare at camp personnel for actions which only weeks before would either have been ignored or accepted in silence.' Denton chided those prisoners, 'including many who had laid low during the tough years,' who were suddenly taking an uncooperative toward guards and commanding officers alike…"

       "Stockdale cited the alternatives as 'whether to hit the Vietnamese head on or to ease into position.' The senior remembered getting a query from cell 6 asking what their 'posture' should be and replying, 'Our basic posture will be one of oblique envelopment.' The word came back immediately from 6, he told his debriefer [14], 'Are you shitting me? Orson (Swindle) can't even spell it.'"

       "Indicative of the degree to which the tables had been turned by the spring of 1971 was Dramesi's reflection on how 'things have really changed…the prisoners now harass the guards.' … Any number of POW 'projects' were going on … Ron Byrne ordered a 'stare' program whereby inmates gave guards dirty looks, murmured under their breath, and acted menacing enough to make their handlers distinctly uncomfortable…"

       "Finding that they were losing face as well as control, prison administrators took a series of steps through the spring and summer to regain the upper hand [15].  Besides continuing to detain seniors and troublemakers in Heartbreak, the captors instituted a version of an earlier program whereby they attempted to wreck the POW chain of command by placing junior officers in charge of cells and designating them the sole intermediaries in cell contacts with jailers. The 'Junior Officer Liaison' program had [no success]. At some point Vietnamese authorities decided, too, that sending agitators to the 'woodshed' at Heartbreak was insufficient and that housecleaning on a larger scale was necessary. Whether or not Day was correct in his view that Hughes's defamation of Ho 'was the straw that broke the camel's back,' two days after the Colonel's whipping on 19 March1971, guards rounded up a bunch of men, many of them with long records as instigators, and shipped them out to Skid Row. Included in the group of 36 were the likes of Day, McCain, Fellowes, Shuman, Haines, Swindle, and Warner. Red McDaniel observed that the 19 pulled from his cell had been active in the 'stare' project. Guarino [the SRO at the Zoo] thought those tabbed were selected at random and that the Vietnamese were merely employing 'scare tactics' to keep the POWs guessing and on edge. Haines and a half dozen others were moved back in May [1971]. The rest of the exiles, given the sobriquet 'Hell's Angels' by their comrades at Unity, spent about six months at the punishment camp in a compound separate from the prisoners who had been captured in the South."

Note: This is the first indication in the authoritative books on the NAM-POW experience that John McCain and Orson Swindle were ever together in the same location while prisoners of war - starting in 1971 and ending in 1972. The 'Good Guy Era' [16], when the torture regime started to phase out, began in early 1970 and was completed by December 1970.

       Robert Timberg, in his fine history of the U.S. Naval Academy graduates who made a name for themselves during the Vietnam War era, chimes in with an account of the major collaboration of John McCain and Orson Swindle while POWs during the last two years [1971-1972] of their imprisonment in Hanoi [17]. "At camp Unity, McCain and Swindle joined forces to teach a course in English and American literature. The lectures had a Classic Comics flavor, but they prepared as rigorously as college professors. The course included the works of Fielding, Melville, Kipling, Conrad, Hemingway, Fitzgerald, and Maugham. McCain, on his own, taught a social studies class. Never one to underplay his hand, he called it The History of the World from the Beginning."

       The 'Honor Bound' book describes the environment at camp Unity during 1972 [18]. "One group of participants recounted that 'hardly a night passed in these large cells without some form of entertainment being provided by someone,' a narration, a travelogue, in some cases elaborate skits replete with costume changes and staging. 'Dusk was 'show time,' Plumb remembered, and by 1972 'low-cost spectaculars.'"

       Timberg continues, "There were less academic pursuits. McCain and Swindle pooled their knowledge of movies to entertain the troops, telling the story and doing bits and pieces of dialogue. The shows became an evening ritual, Monday Night at the Movies, Tuesday Night at the Movies, and so on. The regulars would arrive early, squat down in front, lay out a stash of cigarettes, their own and those they were able to scrounge from nonsmokers, and wait for the performance to begin. Whatever the drawbacks, at least you could smoke at the movies in Hanoi."

       "'I did over a hundred movies, some of which I'd never seen,' said McCain. A favorite was One-Eyed Jacks, in part because it contained a popular all-purpose epithet, 'scum-sucking pig,' which many POWs deemed dead-solid perfect for LBJ [for his cessation of the bombing of the North] and various antiwar figures."

       Another datum on when McCain and Swindle crossed paths during their imprisonment is recorded in 'Honor Bound' [19]. "At Christmas, 1971, cell 2's [at camp Unity] McCain, Swindle, Fer, Hivner, and Waggoner starred in a 'Hanoi Players' production of Dickens's holiday classic with Scrooge 'meaner than a barrel of snakes' and Tiny Tim and Bob Cratchit  'more pathetic than ever.'"

       An interesting observation has been made by David D. Kirkpatrick, the New York Times reporter, who follows the 2008 presidential election candidates. He describes John McCain's behavior as a POW in terms of McCain's thesis, written at the National War College after his return from Hanoi [20].  He writes, "[McCain] has talked about his studies as a tutorial in the hows-and-whys of America's involvement in Southeast Asia. But the 40-page final paper he produced was limited to an evaluation of the military code of conduct through the prism of his 'narrow, but personal viewpoint…At times, Mr. McCain seemed to court punishment, noisily cussing out his captors while giving 'thumbs up' signs to his fellow prisoners. 'No matter what he did, he always played to the bleachers,' Robert Coram, a military historian, wrote in a book about the camps."

       What is Kirkpatrick referring to here? The 'P.O.W.' book provides a description of an event in 1968 when McCain was imprisoned at the Plantation, the 'show camp' where POWs were paraded before foreign correspondents and American 'peace' anti-war delegates visiting Hanoi [21]. "On Christmas Eve [1968] approximately fifty POWs found themselves attending a religious ceremony in a room at the Plantation. An organ was playing, and [an Air Force major] led a small choir of Americans in seasonal hymns. English-speaking Vietnamese officers bustled about, trying unsuccessfully to get the other prisoners to stop passing information to one another. Photographers crowded the sides and rear of the room, popping bulbs, grinding away movie film, talking and calling out. A sort of low-key pandemonium reigned. Soft Soap Fairy, conscious that he was being filmed, stood smiling in an aisle and calling, 'McCain, stop talking.'"

       "'F--- you,' called John McCain, who resumed briefing Doug Hegdahl on all that had happened to him. 'I refused to go home. I was tortured for it. They broke my rib, and rebroke my arm'…McCain was deathly pale, his eyes sunken, and his arms looked twisted, as though he had suffered polio. But Hegdahl, who now had been months in solitary, was thrilled at the size of McCain's spirit."

       "'Our senior ranking officer is Colonel Larson'…Someone else passed the word that there now were 130 POWs at the Zoo; that men were now being tortured for good-treatment statements; and that Larry Guarino was Zoo SRO…Even the members of the choir…were flashing signals with the facing congregation. They advised that an Annex had been constructed beyond the west wall of the Zoo, that there were nine cells, each of them containing eight Americans, most of them junior officers…John McCain, who was of no mind to speak softly, kept attracting the attention of a non-English-speaking guard who apparently did not understand the event was being filmed. He stood in the aisle, making ominous noises and motions at McCain. Delighted, McCain called out, 'F--- you, you son of a b---h!' Cooler heads hauled the angry guard off. For some it was a great Christmas."

       McCain received no punishment by his captors. Why? Torture was minimal at the Plantation, compared to other prison facilities [22]. John McCain self-reports that, contrary to the clampdown at Hoa lo, the Briarpatch and the Zoo, the 'lackadaisical attitude existed at The Plantation during his early years there, from December 1967 all the way up through June 1968 [23].' "…my treatment was basically good. I would get caught communicating, talking to guys through the wall, tapping - that kind of stuff, and they'd just say, 'Tsk, tsk; no, no.' Really, I thought things were not too bad."

       In fact during 1968, while McCain was still imprisoned at the Plantation, when the resistance movement within the POW ranks and the enemy's attempt to force confessions and interviews with U.S. anti-war groups visiting Hanoi in the propaganda war against America, most of the prison camp internees suffered a great deal of torture. This was not the case at the Plantation. According to the book [24], 'Honor Bound,' "If it had been any other camp, the captor would have likely countered the spreading rebelliousness at the Plantation with a ferocious general crackdown on communication and other POW activities. But the camp's peculiar status as a showplace for visitors limited the actions that the Vietnamese could take to restore control. Although they sporadically resorted to brute physical force, as with McCain and Carrigan (Footnote: Plumb was another who got mauled…He reported twice being spreadeagled on the ground and whipped with a fan belt, but the 'common punishment,' he said, was for guards to force violators to their knees and beat them about the face with open hands [i.e. slaps and cuffs] much preferred 'because it left only welts and bruises. Whereas the fan belt left permanent foot-long scars.), officials could not institute a camp-wide reign of terror at Plantation without subverting the very purpose for which the facility was established."

       Upon his return, McCain was assigned as a student to the National War College. Timberg's book describes McCain's experience there [25]. "The year at the War College helped McCain come to terms with Vietnam. At the end of his tutorial [thesis, required for graduation], he felt he understood enough about the war to set it aside and move on. He was determined not to become a professional POW, partly because it was not his nature, mostly because it meant living in the past, which did not interest him. 'I don't talk about prison because it bores the shit our of me,' he once said."

       "As much as any POW, McCain transformed his prison experience into a positive force in his life, one from which he drew strength and, eventually, power, but which by an awesome act of will he refused to dwell on. 'Just as I profited from my first year at the Naval Academy, which I didn't enjoy, I profited from my time in prison, which I didn't enjoy.' At times, it come back to haunt him. Usually, though, what he felt came out in small ways, often an eruption of temper out of all proportion to the provocation."

       "'You either go in one of two directions,' he later said. 'Either you go forward, and try to rebuild your life -not just the material part, but the spiritual part, too - or you look back in anger. If you look back in anger, it can be not only nonproductive, but self-destructive.' He added, 'It's all been part of my life, but it was just a part of my life, and it's over. There was one exception, the confession out of him during his first year in prison. 'It's the only blemish,' he said. 'It's something I'll never get over.'"

       Of course, this is a subterfuge. It is a clever bit of misinformation that has been exposed in this 'conversation with the North Vietnam POW Leadership. We now learn that his first violation of the Code of Conduct for American Fighting Men was his self-admitted agreement to provide military information to his captors in exchange for medical treatment during his first six weeks in the North Vietnamese military hospital - during which neither Orson Swindle nor any of the other NAM-POWs were there. McCain's later 'confession,' as an air pirate, etc. - similar to those signed by about 80 percent of the NAM-POWs - is the one that he coyly would have us believe was the source of his 'blemish' as described above. In reality, his first violation of the Code was never divulged to either his fellow POWs nor to his 'Cluster Wheat' (self-incriminating testimony) debriefers at the Pentagon on his return home. It is no wonder that now, during his second run for the presidency, that he would still insist that 'all of that is behind him.' In fact, it is not behind him. That is the blemish - well hidden - which is a damning testament to John McCain's character in a headlong quest for power. Now that he is the Republican candidate for the presidency, neither he, his NAM-POW Leadership buddies, nor the Republican Party hacks can go back and re-invent the story. They are stuck with it. He is to be the HERO candidate of the coming election - no matter what!

       Timberg also reveals an interesting tale concerning McCain's relationship with the Reagans which set him on his political career [26]. "John McCain's relationship with Ronald Reagan began in the spring of 1973, about two months after his release. He and Carol [his first wife] were in Los Angeles, where McCain was waiting to testify against Daniel Ellsberg, under indictment for passing the Pentagon Papers to the press…He never testified…on May 11 the judge dismissed the charges…Freed from trial duties, the McCains flew up to San Francisco where Ross Perot was hosting a gala homecoming weekend for POWs…"

       "Nancy Reynolds, a special assistant to Governor Reagan, was in the hotel lounge with a group of ex-prisoners and their wives when someone at the table, as if spotting a movie star, shouted, 'There's Johnny McCain.' McCain was on crutches; Carol had crutches and a wheelchair. Even so, Reynolds had never met a happier, jauntier, more delightful couple. 'It was like meeting two people you know you'll never forget,' she said. McCain struck her as a natural celebrity: 'He walks into a room and its bing, bing, bing and everybody's sort of dazzled.'"

       "Reynolds was not at the Perot party by chance. From the late 1960s on, Ronald and Nancy Reagan had taken a personal interest in the POWs. Reynolds served as staff liaison with the families. At one picnic in their honor, a young boy, Todd Hansen, said to the governor, 'Will you bring my daddy home?' Reagan was speechless until Todd asked a follow-up question that got him off the hook: 'Will you take me to the bathroom?'"

       "The Reagans' concern for the POWs seemed genuine. 'I can't wait to get my arms around each of those men,' Nancy Reagan sobbed as the first group touched down on American soil. The Reagans hosted a total of four parties for the men and their families, two in Sacramento, two in L.A., Mrs. Reagan planning all the details herself, down to the place settings. At one party, a POW gave her the tin cup and spoon he had used in prison. She burst into tears on the receiving line."

       "Back in the office after the Perot weekend, Reynolds told the Reagans, 'You have to meet the McCains.' She arranged for the two couples to get together a few days later when both would be in Los Angeles. The governor…ceremonially uncorked a [bottle of wine] as John and Carol arrived at the Reagan home in Pacific Palisades. Even with Reagan and his wife doing all they could to put them at ease, the McCains were uncomfortable at first, not quite sure what they were doing there. When everyone was settled, the Reagans began peppering John with questions about prison. For the next two hours, they led him through a chronology of his experiences. 'They wanted to hear every detail,' said Carol. John fretted over wearing out his welcome, but each time he made overtures to leave, the Reagans said, 'No, no, stay right where you are.'"

       " 'Did you ever want to kill yourself?' asked Reagan, a piercing question of the type he would rarely ask as President. 'Sure, but that's easy,' said McCain, shading the truth. 'That gives you a way out if you kill yourself.' The McCains became favorites of Reagan and his California crowd. They all knew John had suffered terribly, but he made it hard for them to feel sorry for him. When pressed to talk about prison, he spoke about the heroism of others or transformed the Hanoi Hilton into an updated version of Stalag 17, a bunch of wild and crazy guys outsmarting a crew of bumbling, if sadistic, jailers."

       "A favorite story concerned a prisoner who built himself a motorcycle only he could see. When he finished, he took it out each day for a spin around the courtyard. At times it broke down and he would have to repair it. Give me a wrench, he would demand of the guards, give me a screwdriver. Crazy, crazy the guards would say, shaking their heads. One day, though, he hit a curve too sharply, taking a nasty spill. Racing over, the guards assisted him to his feet, picked up the motorcycle, and helped him remount."

       "In 1974, his last year as governor, Reagan invited McCain to speak at the annual prayer breakfast in Sacramento. 'Nancy cries when we send out the laundry,' said Reagan in his introduction, 'so I want to tell you, she'll never make it through listening to a talk by our next guest, Commander John McCain.' Never glancing at a note, McCain told a prison parable, of being in solitary, a hole in the ground, [Note: In the entire official records, McCain was never, yes never, ever in solitary - in a hole in the ground. POWs at the Briarpatch were, but not McCain - in any of the prison camps where he spent time.], unbearable heat, suicidal thoughts intensifying. By chance he discovered some scratchings on the wall, the words of a previous inmate: 'I believe in God, the Father Almighty.'"

       "Reagan was right. Mrs. Reagan had the Kleenex out within five minutes. She wasn't alone. 'There must have been three hundred or four hundred people, maybe more than that, all these people sobbing,' said Nancy Reynolds. 'Not just sniffling. Ronald Reagan was sitting up there bawling. We were all dazzled,' she continued. 'He was a natural speaker, as she was beginning to realize, a natural politician.

       And of course, we also now know - from both the 'Honor Bound' book and the 'P.O.W.' book that John McCain was also a renowned 'storyteller while a POW in Hanoi. For example, he conversed with his interrogator at the Plantation [27]. "At the Plantation one spring day [in 1968], a new, young interrogator tried to establish a rapport with John McCain. 'What is Easter? Why do you celebrate Easter?' the interrogator asked."

       "'At this time of year, a very important thing happened: Jesus Christ, Who was the Son of God, was crucified and died. Three days later, on Easter Sunday, he rose from the dead and went to heaven.'"

       "The interrogator stared fixedly at McCain. Then he asked, 'You say, He die?' McCain answered, 'Yes. He died.' The interrogator then said, 'Then, three day, He was dead?' McCain, 'Yes, that's right.' The interrogator then said, 'You say, He went to Heaven?' McCain 'Yes, He came alive again. People saw Him. Then He went up into heaven.'"

       The Interrogator fell silent for a long moment, clearly wondering if he was hearing the prisoner correctly. Then he left the room, muttering to himself. He returned some minutes later, full of stern demeanor, saying, 'McCain, the officer tell me you tell nothing but lies! The officer told me about you! Now, go back to your room.'"

       Of course, this self-reported conversation by John McCain became part of the NAM-POW myth of John McCain. Orson Swindle had no first-hand knowledge of it - he was not there. Nor was Orson Swindle there in 1970 when McCain, unbelievably and under absolutely no duress, gave a self-aggrandizing interview to the communist Cuban psychologist, Dr. Fernando Barral (see 'John McCain as a Prisoner of War' hyperlink for a complete text of that interview). Indeed, the historical record is replete with conversations John McCain had with visiting North Vietnamese dignitaries at the Plantation, with interrogators (e.g. the Easter conversation), and with foreign communist correspondents during the six weeks after his capture while he was undergoing medical treatment in the hospital for North Vietnamese officers. John McCain, according to the official record, became the raconteur extraordinaire - both as a prisoner of war in Hanoi and in the political arena back home. And Orson Swindle was not there during any of these conversations in Hanoi. Swindle, the go-to guy on the McCain campaign staff to defend McCain's behavior while a POW, is not a reliable witness at all. He was not there!

Summary and Conclusions
       The official accounts of the history of our Vietnam War Prisoners of War establish facts to support the notion that Orson Swindle has little to no personally attested knowledge of Senator John McCain's record as a prisoner of war during the periods of intense interrogation and torture [1967-1968] by his North Vietnamese captors. Swindle was not imprisoned at the same location as John McCain until the 1971-1972 years [the 'Good Guy Years'] during which the NVA torture regime was nonexistent. Consequently, Swindle's knowledge of McCain's behavior was based only on what either McCain told him or what he derived from the 'mythical' accounts of others. Swindle's current function as the 'protector of the McCain record' for the Republican spinmiesters in the current 2008 presidential election is without merit.

The facts are as follows:
1) John McCain provided military information to his captors and to foreign communist correspondents in exchange for medical treatment of his very serious shootdown wounds during the six weeks that he was in the North Vietnamese hospital. Neither Orson Swindle nor any other NAM-POW was physically present at that place at that time.

2) John McCain has never, either privately or publicly, provided the details of that military information, even though he has publicly admitted to having provided such information. Indeed, McCain failed to 'self-incriminate' himself by divulging that information to his Pentagon debriefers upon his return home and did not divulge it to any of his fellow NAM-POWs during their imprisonment - else it would have been reported by them to their debriefers. They would have been honor-bound to report such information to their debriefers. No such information is in the available records.

3) John McCain stiffened his resolve during the period of brutal interrogation and torture [1968-1969] and became a resister at the Plantation complex while in the company of 'adult supervision' during that time - as reported by his SRO Ted Guy and others. Orson Swindle was not imprisoned with or near McCain during those years.

4) John McCain lapsed into his previous mode of giving interviews with his captors in 1970, while at the Vegas complex in Hanoi where he was interviewed by the Cuban psychologist, Dr. Fernando Barral. Again, Orson Swindle was not there at the time.  McCain was admonished by his SRO at the time, Jeremiah Denton, for giving that interview.

5) Orson Swindle and John McCain were never imprisoned together in the same location until - starting in 1971 and ending in 1972. The 'Good Guy Era' [1970], when the torture regime started to phase out, began in early 1970 and was completed by December 1970. Consequently, Swindle had absolutely no first-hand experience with McCain until 1971.

6) The only joint activity by Swindle and McCain came during the last two years of their imprisonment, and then only in the 'entertainment' part of the daily life of the POWs.

7) It is of interest that the 'McCain for President' website lists eight former NAM-POWs (including Swindle) as a group of 'representatives' who speak for 'over 80 former POWs' who support John McCain's run for the presidency. The 'Honor Bound' book states that [28] "…591 Americans were repatriated during Operation Homecoming. The Americans included 77 Army, 138 Navy, 325 Air Force, 26 Marines, and 25 civilians." Since 591 minus the 80 above equals 500 or so former NAM-POWs who have not publicly at least support the McCain bid for the presidency. Who, if anyone, speaks for them? Has anyone taken a 'poll' or interviewed the rest? Why do we not hear from the 500?  Maybe Orson Swindle can answer those questions.
____________________________________________________________________
Footnotes:

Rochester, Stuart I and Kiley, Frederick, "Honor Bound: American Prisoners of War in Southeast Asia 1961-1973," Naval Institute Press, 1998.
² Hubbell, John G., "P.O.W.: A Definitive History of the American Prisoner-of-War Experience in Vietnam 1964-1973," Reader's Digest Press, 1976.
³ Ibid, Honor Bound, footnote, pp. 307.
⁴ Ibid, Honor Bound, pp. 320-23.
⁵ Ibid, Honor Bound, pp. 381.
⁶ Ibid, Honor Bound, footnote, pp. 381.
⁷ Ibid, Honor Bound, pp. 479-491.
⁸ Ibid, Honor Bound, pp. 487.
⁹ Ibid, Honor Bound, pp. 376.
¹⁰ Ibid, Honor Bound, pp. 491.
¹¹ Ibid, Honor Bound, pp. 509.
¹² Ibid, Honor Bound, pp. 523.
¹³ Ibid, Honor Bound, pp. 528.
¹⁴ Ibid, Honor Bound, pp. 529.
¹⁵ Ibid, Honor Bound, pp. 538.
¹⁶ Ibid, Honor Bound, pp. 497-521.
¹⁷ Timberg, Robert, "The Nightingale's Song," pp. 194, Simon & Schuster, 1995.
¹⁸ Ibid, Honor Bound, pp. 545.
¹⁹ Ibid, Honor Bound, pp. 547.
²⁰ Kirkpatrick, David, D., "The Long Run: In '74 Thesis, the Seeds of McCain's War Views," The New York Times, 15 June 2008.
²¹ Ibid, P.O.W., pp. 465-466.
²² Ibid, "Honor Bound," pp. 141-148.
²³ Ibid, "U.S. News & World Report," pp. 50.

²⁴ Ibid, "Honor Bound," pp. 364.

²⁵ Ibid, "The Nightingale's Song," pp. 235.
²⁶ Ibid, "The Nightingale's Song, pp. 235-238.
²⁷ Ibid, 'P.O.W.,' pp. 486.

²⁸ Ibid, 'Honor Bound,' pp. 587-589.


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